Thoughts; A Flame

Comment notification helps! :) On Paul, you're st...

2010-03-09T17:09:50.943-06:00

Comment notification helps! :)

On Paul, you're stretching the text well beyond what it covers. Matthew 6 is expressly addressing the issue of giving, something Paul never goes into regarding what he himself gives. Further, Paul notes whenever he is "boasting" that he is doing so foolishly, so as to make a point. I might be more lenient with Morris if he likewise called himself a fool for even bringing it up, but instead he gave himself a written pat on the back and directly defied Scriptural injunctions against talking about one's own giving.

While I recognize where you're coming from regarding the allegedly-financial nature of Jesus' promises, I ultimately disagree, and quite deeply, based on the testimony of those who Jesus was addressing when he spoke of receiving one hundred-fold. None of them had money to speak of. The apostles never had much money; certainly Peter never owned a hundred fishing boats, though that's exactly what he and his brothers had left, or anything close.

Many of the early churches were very poor, or had many members who were very poor. James and Paul both address churches where it is clear that financial hardship is normal for some of these people. Paul lived in deep poverty much of the time, to the point that he was incredibly grateful for the gift the Philippians sent him—and noted immediately that he had learned to be content in times of wealth and poverty. If you and Morris are to be believed, that situation of poverty simply shouldn't have happened...

And what about all the men and women today who give and do not receive? Is God's promise void to them? (I know those people, by the way.) Of course not! But they are, as Jesus says elsewhere, storing up for themselves "treasures in heaven," where moth and rust and thief have no power. We receive help from the body of Christ, where above all we have friends and family that fill the holes from those left behind.

Yes, we should give, and sacrificially. And yes, God will provide for our needs as we do so. But only our needs, not our desires—and those are vastly different things.

Regarding the rich young ruler, you're right that Jesus does not condemn the having of money. Nor do I. I do, however, think the passage pretty unambiguously points out that money is a deep hindrance to the gospel's work in our hearts. Moreover, there is nothing in the passage that suggests that the man would receive more wealth if he came and followed Jesus... to the contrary: if that were so, his giving up his wealth would be no obstacle to his following Christ at all. The only reason it is an obstacle is because the expectation was that Jesus' followers would have little, not much.

To sum up, as I said in my original review, Morris says a lot of good things. They're just mixed with a lot of bad, especially in the way he handles Scripture.

I'm surprised that you responded to such an old po...

2010-03-09T15:16:52.834-06:00

I'm surprised that you responded to such an old post ;) Anyway, I'll quickly make 2 points. #1 Declaring your good works before men is different then teaching on a subject and using yourself as an example. The Apostle Paul does this many times in scripture. A quick example is when Paul boldly states "I labored more abundantly then they all." Yes, he states "not I but Christ in me", but if MT 6 is to be applied then Paul was wrong to even state the case, as clearly he is letting the right hand know what the left hand is doing, which I'm sure you will agree cannot be true. Morris is also doing this. Teaching by example. #2 The rich young ruler gets quoted out of context a lot. Jesus' command to him was a swap of an already gained temporal riches for eternal riches; of which I will call phase 2 of "the blessed life" being able to give back the blessing God has given in order to gain a greater blessing in eternity. BUT, not to be disconnected from further blessing in this life. Remember, when Peter states just following the departure of the rich young ruler "we have given up everything to follow you, what will we get" Jesus didn't say "don't talk like that, just be happy with eternity". He specifically says "no who has given up x,y,z shall receive x,y,z X100!!!! IN THIS LIFE and eternal life. You state God may or may not choose to bless us financially as we give, but God states emphatically that he PROMISES he will bless us financially. I completely agree with you about the problem with "stuff" in America but that doesn't apply in this context because it is the continual giving away of stuff. Think of it this way. What if everytime you got stuff you tried to give it away and the faster you gave it away the faster you got more, do you really think that you would be all that excited about getting more? That is the principle to consider. So long as you keep pouring out the oil, there will be more oil. But when you stop pouring the oil stops. The blessing is in distribution not receiving. But distribution can only continue through receiving. If every church (pastors AND members) would apply the biblical principles found in Rober Morris' book, preachers wouldn't have to keep begging for money for half the service.

I love you. I admire you very much for writing abo...

2010-03-04T12:25:56.190-06:00

I love you. I admire you very much for writing about this.

Love the link to "infectious mononucleosis," as we...

2010-02-26T15:55:53.169-06:00

Love the link to "infectious mononucleosis," as well as the multiple, shameless plugs for Pillar. Oh, the last sentence amused me greatly. I definitely married the right guy!

"Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to ...

2010-02-24T18:29:13.465-06:00

"Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death." (James 1:15)

So, something like that. :p

Sin slowly digests you after it swallows you whole...

2010-02-24T18:24:37.309-06:00

Sin slowly digests you after it swallows you whole? Cause that's pretty much how carnivorous plants work to me...

Enjoyed the comparison! I had a student with mono ...

2010-02-24T05:03:06.955-06:00

Enjoyed the comparison! I had a student with mono this year. He didn't slow down for very long, so he seems to still have it in waves. He's in sixth grade. When he came back, he spent a fair amount of time convincing his classmates that he hadn't ever kissed anyone to get it. :) I'm so glad to hear that you're able to rest up! Praying for your healing!

nospam2k—don't be too quick to assume that I've no...

2010-01-29T16:57:58.526-06:00

nospam2k—don't be too quick to assume that I've not seen God's provision in my life, nor that my disagreement with Robert Morris has anything at all to do with my "balancing" habits regarding finances. It doesn't. I have a hard time seeing Morris' continual references to how God has blessed Him—while always talking about how much he has given—as anything but direct disobedience to Jesus' instruction in the Sermon on the Mount:

"Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

"Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you."
Matthew 6:1-4

That, combined with the misinterpretations I saw throughout the book, led to my fairly middle-of-the-road review—a generous take on Morris's teaching in this book, in my opinion.

As I noted multiple times in the course of the review, I'm all in favor of giving abundantly to God and trusting Him to provide our needs. My concern was that Morris couched "meeting our needs" in a sense that goes far beyond Biblical language. Being comfortable, having nice cars, and living the American dream is, in many regards, a stumbling block to the Gospel—unless you think that Jesus' words about the rich young (Matthew 19:16-30) ruler aren't equally applicable to we Americans who are richer than anyone in the world!

God may or may not choose to bless us financially as we give. Morris, like many in the Prosperity Gospel movement, leaves no room for poverty for those who give generously... but Jesus does.

I know I'm responding to a very old blog but just ...

2010-01-29T16:38:05.148-06:00

I know I'm responding to a very old blog but just in case anyone else may fall upon this. Though I don't know the author, I can safely say he has never experienced what Robert Morris is describing in his book. In a time where Americans give only 3% of their income to God, it is very clear that people do not understand the truth of relying on Jesus to provide for their needs. The point of the book is not reliance on God to provide money but reliance on God to provide period. The blogger assumes this to be money because money is the method whereby God meets our needs. To say we should rely on God, scripture, etc is to assume that God doesn't use money. Because I know what it's like to go from "rags to riches" spiritually speaking through giving as described by Robert Morris, to say that it is self serving or unbiblical is just ridiculous because it requires great faith and great reliance on God to give in that manner. The truth is that most Christian really don't believe God will meet their needs so they resort to believing "balancing" doctrines that accommodate their unbelief and continue to talk theoretically. It has always amazed me how there can be people who testify of God doing great things through their lives and when they try to let other people know so they can experience the same thing, they are accused of being boastful.

Amber—I'll have to ask him, I don't know about the...

2010-01-21T16:56:41.418-06:00

Amber—I'll have to ask him, I don't know about the tree. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me, but typically it's been grand, sweeping sorts of things rather than minutiae. And mostly it's been the hard things in parallel (though that branch was admittedly rather firm).

Regarding Stephen living your life--has he ever ru...

2010-01-20T13:18:08.718-06:00

Regarding Stephen living your life--has he ever run into a tree because he was distracted by a pretty girl? :) Just teasing, of course. Seriously, though, it is amazing to see how God uses the rough times that we go through to make us able to help others who go through similar things later! That has definitely been something I've seen in my life, too, and something that has been a huge blessing to me. Some things haven't made any sense while I was going through them. They were hard and frustrating and painful. Later, though, when I was able to say to someone else, "I've been through this, and this is how God helped me get through," I was amazed to look back and think, "So *that's* why that happened to me..." That probably wasn't the only reason, but it certainly at least gave me one reason! :)

Your last paragraph is almost exactly what God rem...

2010-01-08T08:15:43.427-06:00

Your last paragraph is almost exactly what God reminded me of as I read my old journals yesterday: We are not entitled to anything. Every good thing we have is from him! It's so awesome that we have the same thing on our hearts, husband. :)

Thank you for posting this. I appreciate it more t...

2009-12-23T11:31:52.615-06:00

Thank you for posting this. I appreciate it more than usual because I missed the sermon!

The house looks fantastic. You are the best husban...

2009-12-23T11:26:46.555-06:00

The house looks fantastic. You are the best husband ever, and I'm so glad and thankful we get to spend this Christmas together.

Well done.

2009-12-15T12:31:13.260-06:00

Well done.

"Computers," he said," are a delectable delight, b...

2009-12-09T22:58:32.267-06:00

"Computers," he said," are a delectable delight, best enjoyed with a side of whipped cream."

and NOT the fat free kind!

HAHAHAHAHAHA! I'm so sorry... I enjoy them with...

2009-12-09T16:58:52.406-06:00

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I'm so sorry...

I enjoy them with honey, myself...

HAHA! Love the last sentence. You rock. So do ch...

2009-12-04T08:23:00.903-06:00

HAHA! Love the last sentence.

You rock.

So do chocolate chip cookies (which I make...HAHA again).

Great post! There was an article in The Daily abo...

2009-11-21T16:12:27.618-06:00

Great post!

There was an article in The Daily about this very thing yesterday. A florid writer, arguing the merits of floridity.

I like. Very much.

I want to work on praying specifics. Liked the se...

2009-11-16T16:22:05.931-06:00

I want to work on praying specifics.

Liked the sermon, like the post!

You always seem to catch the things I miss. I'm th...

2009-11-08T18:43:14.365-06:00

You always seem to catch the things I miss. I'm thankful for your writing these sermon posts!

That is a great line from "Shadowfeet." "Made of d...

2009-11-06T09:33:01.647-06:00

That is a great line from "Shadowfeet." "Made of different stuff than when I began..." what a perfect description! I look back a few years ago and wonder that I'm the same flesh and blood; I'm hardly the same soul, it seems.

Good conclusion! You are particularly good at coh...

2009-11-02T08:09:54.943-06:00

Good conclusion!

You are particularly good at coherent summaries.

Thanks for posting! Good thoughts here, my friend...

2009-10-31T19:30:29.175-05:00

Thanks for posting! Good thoughts here, my friend! :)

You are certainly a spiritual progeny of Luther (a...

2009-10-23T10:15:15.873-05:00

You are certainly a spiritual progeny of Luther (at least, according to what I read today about his views on faith and works...I'll pass it on to you)!